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	<title>Comments on: The Necessity of Mathematics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sunclipse.org/?feed=rss2&#038;p=663" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663</link>
	<description>&#34;no matter how gifted, you alone cannot change the world&#34;</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:09:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39602</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I put a PDF version of this essay &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=724&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I put a PDF version of this essay <a href="http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=724" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Why we need math for science &#171; Science Notes</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39512</link>
		<dc:creator>Why we need math for science &#171; Science Notes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 2008 June 26, Thursday, 18:00 &#8212; monado   Blake Stacey of Science After Sunclipse explains The Necessity of Mathematics. &#8230;More and more people are becoming convinced that our civilization requires wisdom in order [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2008 June 26, Thursday, 18:00 &#8212; monado   Blake Stacey of Science After Sunclipse explains The Necessity of Mathematics. &#8230;More and more people are becoming convinced that our civilization requires wisdom in order [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Monado</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39473</link>
		<dc:creator>Monado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very, very well written and interesting to boot. 

One of my favourite bits of Isaac Asimov&#039;s science writing was an appendix in which he derived &lt;i&gt;E=mc**2&lt;/i&gt; from the Michaelson-Morley experiment, using only simple geometry &amp; math.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very, very well written and interesting to boot. </p>
<p>One of my favourite bits of Isaac Asimov&#8217;s science writing was an appendix in which he derived <i>E=mc**2</i> from the Michaelson-Morley experiment, using only simple geometry &amp; math.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39468</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lawyers need to know statistics, in order to manipulate juries who don&#039;t know statistics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawyers need to know statistics, in order to manipulate juries who don&#8217;t know statistics.</p>
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		<title>By: Atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39465</link>
		<dc:creator>Atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blake, nice blog. I saw the link to you from the Freshwater thread at BlueCollarScientist.

Even your title makes me laugh - the neccessity of mathematics.

I was teaching math to a friend&#039;s twelve-year-old. She&#039;s smart but oriented to history and argument (and will probably become a lawyer). So she said to me - why should I learn this stuff? I&#039;ll never use it again. And I had no answer for her, because she&#039;s probably right. Somehow, &quot;the beauty of it (math)&quot; seemed a lame answer.

Again, nice blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake, nice blog. I saw the link to you from the Freshwater thread at BlueCollarScientist.</p>
<p>Even your title makes me laugh &#8211; the neccessity of mathematics.</p>
<p>I was teaching math to a friend&#8217;s twelve-year-old. She&#8217;s smart but oriented to history and argument (and will probably become a lawyer). So she said to me &#8211; why should I learn this stuff? I&#8217;ll never use it again. And I had no answer for her, because she&#8217;s probably right. Somehow, &#8220;the beauty of it (math)&#8221; seemed a lame answer.</p>
<p>Again, nice blog.</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39427</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait.. I thought this &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; a site on the web.  And doesn&#039;t Blake have copyright already under U.S. law?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait.. I thought this <em>was</em> a site on the web.  And doesn&#8217;t Blake have copyright already under U.S. law?</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39425</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Funnily enough, I was actually planning to make a PDF copy of my &quot;greatest hits,&quot; since after all some of them have turned out rather lengthy.  Had I but world enough and time. . . .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funnily enough, I was actually planning to make a PDF copy of my &#8220;greatest hits,&#8221; since after all some of them have turned out rather lengthy.  Had I but world enough and time. . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hatfield, OM</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39422</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hatfield, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blake, this is good stuff.  It would be a good read for a honors physics or calculus class at (some) high schools.  But, boy, would it be a lot easier to digest as a PDF file.  How about slapping a &#039;poor man&#039;s copyright&#039; on some of your more detailed offerings, post them on-line at mediafire or some similar site on the web, then posting links to your jewels?  They deserve even wider circulation.

Admiringly...Scott Hatfield]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake, this is good stuff.  It would be a good read for a honors physics or calculus class at (some) high schools.  But, boy, would it be a lot easier to digest as a PDF file.  How about slapping a &#8216;poor man&#8217;s copyright&#8217; on some of your more detailed offerings, post them on-line at mediafire or some similar site on the web, then posting links to your jewels?  They deserve even wider circulation.</p>
<p>Admiringly&#8230;Scott Hatfield</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39420</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 02:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The college I attended offered introductory physics without (much)calculus (mainly for pre-meds) and physics with calculus for more serious students). Physics without calculus wasn&#039;t very worthwhile, and calculus had to be brought in anyway. Years later, I got to appreciate the utility of calculus for understanding other sciences.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The college I attended offered introductory physics without (much)calculus (mainly for pre-meds) and physics with calculus for more serious students). Physics without calculus wasn&#8217;t very worthwhile, and calculus had to be brought in anyway. Years later, I got to appreciate the utility of calculus for understanding other sciences.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Egan</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39409</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Egan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I think you are a little too optimistic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I did say &quot;the basics&quot;, i.e. giving people a concrete sense of what the Riemann tensor and the Einstein equations mean, that goes beyond the usual waffly &quot;space-time is curved&quot; that frustrates everyone with its vagueness.

And stop making tensors sound scary!  The basics of differential geometry are incredibly easy:  a tangent vector &lt;i&gt;v&lt;/i&gt; is like a railway line, a scalar function &lt;i&gt;f&lt;/i&gt; is like air pressure, a 1-form d&lt;i&gt;f&lt;/i&gt; is like the contours of constant air pressure, and you can calculate a number &lt;&lt;i&gt;v&lt;/i&gt;,d&lt;i&gt;f&lt;/i&gt;&gt; by asking how fast someone on the train measures the air pressure to be changing.  (Yes, there&#039;s a little bit of fine print to add, but nothing conceptually much more difficult.)  Tensors of various kinds arise simply from multiplying and adding together these basic objects.

IMHO, it would actually be much easier to understand multivariable calculus if it was taught at the same time as these concepts.  I never really, &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; became confident with manipulating partial derivatives until I realised I could draw pictures of everything and treat them all as tangent vectors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think you are a little too optimistic.</p></blockquote>
<p>I did say &#8220;the basics&#8221;, i.e. giving people a concrete sense of what the Riemann tensor and the Einstein equations mean, that goes beyond the usual waffly &#8220;space-time is curved&#8221; that frustrates everyone with its vagueness.</p>
<p>And stop making tensors sound scary!  The basics of differential geometry are incredibly easy:  a tangent vector <i>v</i> is like a railway line, a scalar function <i>f</i> is like air pressure, a 1-form d<i>f</i> is like the contours of constant air pressure, and you can calculate a number &lt;<i>v</i>,d<i>f</i>&gt; by asking how fast someone on the train measures the air pressure to be changing.  (Yes, there&#8217;s a little bit of fine print to add, but nothing conceptually much more difficult.)  Tensors of various kinds arise simply from multiplying and adding together these basic objects.</p>
<p>IMHO, it would actually be much easier to understand multivariable calculus if it was taught at the same time as these concepts.  I never really, <i>really</i> became confident with manipulating partial derivatives until I realised I could draw pictures of everything and treat them all as tangent vectors.</p>
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		<title>By: miller</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39407</link>
		<dc:creator>miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I think anyone who did high school calculus and physics could learn the basics of SR and GR pretty easily.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think you are a little too optimistic.  Speaking as an undergrad physics student, I have had great difficulty finding a good explanation of GR beyond &quot;space-time is curved&quot;.  It may be because I haven&#039;t found the right source (thanks for the link, btw) but I think I&#039;d need to take an entire course to begin to understand.  Anyways, not everyone takes calculus in high school, and they certainly don&#039;t cover multivariable calculus, much less vector calculus, and &lt;i&gt;tensors&lt;/i&gt;.  Where I am, we don&#039;t learn about tensors until well into the upper div physics classes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think anyone who did high school calculus and physics could learn the basics of SR and GR pretty easily.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think you are a little too optimistic.  Speaking as an undergrad physics student, I have had great difficulty finding a good explanation of GR beyond &#8220;space-time is curved&#8221;.  It may be because I haven&#8217;t found the right source (thanks for the link, btw) but I think I&#8217;d need to take an entire course to begin to understand.  Anyways, not everyone takes calculus in high school, and they certainly don&#8217;t cover multivariable calculus, much less vector calculus, and <i>tensors</i>.  Where I am, we don&#8217;t learn about tensors until well into the upper div physics classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39398</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...what you&#039;re good at...

It is a very nice piece of science writing, with real, but not phenomenally complicated mathematics.

Maybe your point should be directed at not stripping the math from science classes, rather than at how we teach math?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;what you&#8217;re good at&#8230;</p>
<p>It is a very nice piece of science writing, with real, but not phenomenally complicated mathematics.</p>
<p>Maybe your point should be directed at not stripping the math from science classes, rather than at how we teach math?</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39396</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And, of course, you should do what you&#039;re good at and what you enjoy doing &#8212; particularly if you&#039;re not getting paid to do it.

(AFAIK, &lt;i&gt;nobody&lt;/i&gt; in the science-blogging business is making a living exclusively off blog profits.  The whole whirl is a study in what kind of content gets written by volunteer labor.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, of course, you should do what you&#8217;re good at and what you enjoy doing &mdash; particularly if you&#8217;re not getting paid to do it.</p>
<p>(AFAIK, <i>nobody</i> in the science-blogging business is making a living exclusively off blog profits.  The whole whirl is a study in what kind of content gets written by volunteer labor.)</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39395</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Some people just honestly donâ€™t want to know about these things and are really never, ever going to use them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which is why I talk about being accessible to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://unapologetic.wordpress.com/about/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;generally interested lay audience&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, rather than to everybody.  I agree that people should be encouraged to remedy where they&#039;re weak on the basics, but if I&#039;m a good communicator it&#039;s to people who are already interested.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Some people just honestly donâ€™t want to know about these things and are really never, ever going to use them.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which is why I talk about being accessible to the <a href="http://unapologetic.wordpress.com/about/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;generally interested lay audience&#8221;</a>, rather than to everybody.  I agree that people should be encouraged to remedy where they&#8217;re weak on the basics, but if I&#8217;m a good communicator it&#8217;s to people who are already interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Egan</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39394</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Egan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I mean, explaining the math of Keplerâ€™s laws is one thing, but I canâ€™t imagine the same happening for General Relativity&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think anyone who did high school calculus and physics could learn the basics of SR and GR &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gregegan.net/FOUNDATIONS/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pretty easily&lt;/a&gt;.

In terms of public understanding of mathematically-based science, the hardest audience is going to be those who never coped with algebra and calculus in high school.  Some people just honestly don&#039;t want to know about these things and are really never, ever going to use them, and that&#039;s fair enough, but people who finished high school without reaching that level of mathematical literacy and then later feel locked out of something important need to be encouraged to remedy their problem, rather than being scared off with &quot;mathematics is difficult, boring and nerdy&quot; messages from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=694&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;people who should know better&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I mean, explaining the math of Keplerâ€™s laws is one thing, but I canâ€™t imagine the same happening for General Relativity</p></blockquote>
<p>I think anyone who did high school calculus and physics could learn the basics of SR and GR <a href="http://www.gregegan.net/FOUNDATIONS/index.html" rel="nofollow">pretty easily</a>.</p>
<p>In terms of public understanding of mathematically-based science, the hardest audience is going to be those who never coped with algebra and calculus in high school.  Some people just honestly don&#8217;t want to know about these things and are really never, ever going to use them, and that&#8217;s fair enough, but people who finished high school without reaching that level of mathematical literacy and then later feel locked out of something important need to be encouraged to remedy their problem, rather than being scared off with &#8220;mathematics is difficult, boring and nerdy&#8221; messages from <a href="http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=694" rel="nofollow">people who should know better</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39386</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=663#comment-39386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Um, all right. Now, whatâ€™s a gauge theory?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;You remember how we&#039;ve pointed out that the laws of physics have certain symmetries?  Like if I do an experiment it doesn&#039;t matter whether I do it today or tomorrow, or whether my lab bench faces north or southeast, or whether my lab is in New York or Shanghai?  Good.  Let&#039;s consider the orientation just to be specific.

&quot;So: if I take my entire experimental setup and turn the whole thing by some angle, it&#039;s not going to make a difference in the results I get.  In fact, for a large number of experiments (e.g. polarization measurements) where the apparatus comes in a number of different pieces, you can rotate each piece by the same angle and get the same results.

&quot;Now here&#039;s where the insight comes in: if the parts are all separated from each other by large distances, they obviously can&#039;t tell &lt;em&gt;instantly&lt;/em&gt; when another part of them has been turned.  That would be information, and relativity tells us that information travels at a finite speed.  So the old rotational symmetry has to be &#039;gauged&#039;.  That is, we need to think of rotating by a different angle at each point in spacetime.  Gauge theories are mathematical models physicists have developed to cope with this sort of &#039;gauged&#039; symmetry.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Um, all right. Now, whatâ€™s a gauge theory?</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;You remember how we&#8217;ve pointed out that the laws of physics have certain symmetries?  Like if I do an experiment it doesn&#8217;t matter whether I do it today or tomorrow, or whether my lab bench faces north or southeast, or whether my lab is in New York or Shanghai?  Good.  Let&#8217;s consider the orientation just to be specific.</p>
<p>&#8220;So: if I take my entire experimental setup and turn the whole thing by some angle, it&#8217;s not going to make a difference in the results I get.  In fact, for a large number of experiments (e.g. polarization measurements) where the apparatus comes in a number of different pieces, you can rotate each piece by the same angle and get the same results.</p>
<p>&#8220;Now here&#8217;s where the insight comes in: if the parts are all separated from each other by large distances, they obviously can&#8217;t tell <em>instantly</em> when another part of them has been turned.  That would be information, and relativity tells us that information travels at a finite speed.  So the old rotational symmetry has to be &#8216;gauged&#8217;.  That is, we need to think of rotating by a different angle at each point in spacetime.  Gauge theories are mathematical models physicists have developed to cope with this sort of &#8216;gauged&#8217; symmetry.&#8221;</p>
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